Meeting students for the first time

I haven’t been posting online much the past two months (or reading online, for that matter), because I’ve been busy meeting new clients from the class of 2024. The first meeting with a student is one of my favorite parts of the entire process, because it’s when I get to know these new, interesting people. I never stop being amazed and grateful how much strangers will open up to me within a few minutes of meeting.

What does that first meeting look like? One thing that’s really important to me is that we almost never talk about college in our first meeting. Because a good application process is about finding schools that are a good fit with the student, I need to know about the student.

Here is my outline for talking with students the first time. I don’t usually get to every question, and I try to let the conversation flow as naturally as possible. Whether or not you’re going to work with a consultant for college admission (you probably don’t need to), how would you answer these questions? How would you explain yourself to another person? What questions do you think I should ask that I don’t?

How’s it going? Two things I learned teaching high school: always begin a test with an easy question to put nervous people at ease, and always begin a discussion by asking what the students want to talk about. So I try to begin every meeting with a general “how’s it going?” or a slightly more specific “how’s school going?” 80% of the time the answer is “fine,” but sometimes students are ready to talk about really interesting things right off the bat.

What school do you attend? What’s it like? Most my clients go to the same five high schools, and I’m familiar with them. But it’s good to hear what the students think of school. There’s are huge differences between “I go to the health professions magnet school because I want to be a doctor,” “I go to the health professions magnet school because my parents make me,” and “I go to the health professions magnet school because I thought I wanted to be a doctor…but I’ve changed my mind and now I’m stuck there.”

What classes are you taking? It’s funny, but most students have trouble answering this question. They’re in their classes all the time, but they’re rarely asked to list them. It’s like asking someone to list all the rooms in their house; it’s so familiar that you rarely actually think about it.

What do you like and dislike about school? What’s working for you? The most popular answer for what students like about school: being with their friends. (Especially after pandemic lockdown.) The most popular answers for what they don’t like: taking classes they’re not interested in. And busy-work.

Have there been any big changes recently, either in circumstances or what’s working for you? If your high school life has a before/after structure, I’d like to know. Before/after you moved. Before/after your parents split. Before/after your injury. Before/after you got in some trouble. Before/after your diagnosis.

Who do you live with? What do they do? Parents, ask your children what you do for a living. You may be surprised by the answer. A lot of my clients have trouble answering this question.

What are your grades like? Do you have a GPA and/or rank? Asking “what are your grades like” often gets a narrative answer. Things like “mostly As, but Bs in math classes” or “not too bad, though I had a bad freshman year.” I follow up with asking about the GPA, but that narrative is much more important.

What tests have you taken (PSAT, SAT, ACT etc.) and how did you do? Do you plan on taking any you haven’t already taken or re-taking any? For years, I noticed that nobody was ever happy with their test scores. Everybody wanted to re-take tests and raise their scores. At least for my clients, that’s largely gone away for the past two years. Thanks to test-optional policies and general fatigue, most are taking the SAT once and being done. I’m happy about that.

Tell me about extra stuff at school. Tell me about extra stuff outside of school. Like listing their classes, students have a hard time with this. I’m constantly going back to my notes on this one to add something when they casually mention something they do outside of school that they didn’t list before.

What are your external limitations and special circumstances? Do you have any learning differences? Dyslexia? Anxiety, depression, or OCD? Do you care for your anyone in your family beyond the occasional babysitting or normal housework? Do you work job to help sustain your family? None of these things are a problem, but they are circumstances it's better to know about sooner than later.

What are your current career aspirations? What are all the things you’ve wanted to be when you grow up? This is my favorite question. Lots of “astronaut,” lots of “lawyer,” lots of “veterinarian.” Someone once told me “I had a spy phase, obviously.” Having someone list all their aspirations, even going back to pre-school, can be illuminating. For some students, there’s a clear theme. Some are all over the place. Some don’t really have a career goal. Late middle school seems to be the line where people either find new interests or begin to lose interest.

What do adults praise you for? I didn’t realize it when I began asking this question, but I can now usually predict the tone of the next year’s work with the student based on their answer to this question. I listen very carefully to what students say—and don’t say—when I ask them this. A few have basically given me an outline for an application essay, enumerating several intrinsic traits that adults have noticed in them and giving examples of how those traits have been helpful to themselves and others over the past few years. At the other end of the spectrum are students who have never really heard praise from adults. Most are somewhere in between.

Why do you do what you do? Everyone does at least a few things beyond the bare necessity of what they have to do to graduate high school. Why have they chosen the things they have? What do they get out of it? Where do they want to go next with those interests?

What’s the last book you read--because it was assigned--and enjoyed?  I don’t think anyone will be surprised that students rarely name a book they read for school that they enjoyed. Most reach back to elementary school to find a good example.

What’s the last book you read on your own volition and enjoyed? This usually gets much more robust and enthusiastic responses. And they’re often books I’ve never heard of.

How heavily do you edit? Big things like school essays and projects, and little things like emails and texts? My favorite responses to this question are the ones who essentially say “I don’t really edit much. I just go back over the essay five or six times, making changes each time, until I feel like it’s good enough. But that’s all.” This question gets more humblebrags than any other.

In the past year, what’s been your biggest victory? Let’s celebrate the good!

In the past year, what’s been your biggest setback? Let’s acknowledge the difficult.

For what are you most grateful? This one is really tough to answer. I know because most students begin by saying “this is really tough to answer.” But then they usually answer it.

If you could magically gain one talent or trait, what would it be?

What are you hoping to get out of college consultations with me? It’s never the student who hires me. Usually parents reach out, occasionally an uncle or a family friend. But there’s always something the student hopes to get from me, and it helps to know what it is. It’s also good for the student to understand that what they hope to get from our work may change as we go.

What else do you want to talk about? What did you expect me to ask that I haven’t asked? What else do you think I might need to know about you? I like to end just as open-ended as I begin. My first year or two doing this, I didn’t ask about test scores in our first meeting. I didn’t want to over-emphasize the numbers. But so many people told me that they were expecting me to ask about test scores and that they wanted to tell me about their test scores, I began asking. I now prefer to ask about ACT/SAT early in the conversation to get it over with, since so many are expecting to talk about it. Like with the opening question, the majority say they have nothing else to talk about or ask. But the ones who have something on their mind usually have something really interesting and useful to say. I always want to make room for interesting and useful.

 Thanks for reading! If you enjoyed this post, here are three easy things you can do:

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   What would you do as a bored billionaire?

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Do you need to have your major picked out already?

High school students often feel pressure to have their college major already chosen by the time they apply to college. The pressure to have their plan already figured out comes for the application process itself, which often asks why you’ve chosen the major you indicated in your application. It comes from teachers and counselors at school. A lot of the time, it comes from parents. This is really important: you don’t have to have a major picked out yet.

There are situations where it’s definitely more convenient to already have a major in mind. Large universities, often divided into separate schools with their own applications and requirements, make it hard to get started as a completely Undecided major. It also helps to know your major from day one if you want to graduate from college early…or even on time. There are financial considerations, too. I tell people all the time that if your honest idea about a major is “I don’t know,” then there are plenty of schools built for that. But they tend to be smaller, private liberal arts colleges. And those are often more expensive than larger public universities in your state.

On the other hand, it’s not always a good idea to get too caught up in a chosen major, especially if you’re not feeling too sure about it. You’re likely to change your major anyway—around a third of college students do. And feeling like you “have to” know your life path by the time you’re 18-19 is about as practical as feeling like you “have to” find a life partner by the time you’re 25. It just doesn’t really work that way for most people, even if it would be more convenient and efficient.

Most of the people I work with don’t have a single, clear major chosen by the time they graduate high school. But most of them have an idea of what direction they’re going. Or several possible directions. So if it’s helpful for people who haven't gone through the process to see what’s “normal,” here are examples from the class of 2022 that I’ve worked with (I changed all the names). You can see the variety of schools they end up going to. I live and work in Texas, so it’s no surprise that many of them end up at the University of Texas.

Blair is solidly undecided. They think they’re leaning towards a STEM major, maybe Chemistry? But they’re really relying on college as a place to help them figure out their path, not college as a stepping stone on their path. Blair will be attending Trinity University.

Katherine is STEM-focuesd and very interested in ecology. She will probably end up majoring in Chemistry or Environmental Science. Katherine will be attending UC San Diego.

Liz is undecided. She’s interested in psychology and film, or maybe something else altogether. Liz will be attending Bates College.

Henry is one of the most decided people I’ve worked with when it comes to a major. He wants to major in Mechanical Engineering. Henry will be attending UT Austin in the Cockrell School of Engineering, in the honors program for mechanical engineering.

Lexi wants to double major in Neuroscience and Women & Gender Studies. She’s thinking seriously about med school, and she’s seriously interested in the disparity of medical treatment among men and women in the US. Lexi will be attending the University of Arizona.

Hannah is undecided, but focused on humanities, possibly Political Science. Hannah will be attending American University.

Layla had her mind set on a pre-vet program, but then later in high school she got really interested in agricultural policy. I will not be surprised to see her go on to law school. Layla will be attending Baylor University.

Raj is interested in both Political Science and Chemistry. He also has a passion and natural talent for linguistice. Raj will be attending UT Austin.

Yash is interested in many things, including Political Science, Global Studies, Business, and Education. Yash will be attending UT Austin.

Rachel hasn’t got a major picked out, but it will definitely be in the Humanities. Communication, perhaps? Rachel will be attending the University of Virginia.

Sarah is thinking about majoring in Business, Computer Science, and/or Engineering. She has experience with all three through working in her family business. But she can also envision herself moving towards Literature or Anthropology. Sarah will be attending Dartmouth.

Hannah is very focused on business, so it makes sense that Hannah will be attending Bentley University.

Cara has a variety of interests and hasn’t got a clear major yet. Cara will be attending UT Austin. She applied with the Moody School of Communication as her top choice, but is already trying to move to the McCombs School of Business. She hopes to make the move official at Freshman Orientation.

Molly is a charismatic performer who had a different idea for a major almost every time I spoke to her. Theater. Film. Costume Design. Business with an art industry focus. Music production. Molly will be attending Southwestern University.

From my experience, this snapshot of 14 is pretty typical. There are a few who have a strong sense of that they want, applied to only a few schools, and made the choice fairly easily. Most have a big-picture idea of what they want to do, and will figure out the details in college. These students applied to more schools and had more difficulty making their final choice. And some are still pursuing a wide array of interests. They have very little focus on a major or career path, though they are some of the most energetic and accomplished of the bunch. Several of them made the decision, literally, on the last day.

There are lots of ways to get where you’re going, especially if you don’t know where that is.

Thanks for reading! If you enjoyed this post, here are three easy things you can do:

1. Share it on your social media feeds so your friends and colleagues can see it too.

2. Read these related posts:

   Stop telling people you’re going to double major!

   Picking the right school for your major

   Will a Humanities degree make you poor?

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Apply with Sanity doesn’t have ads or annoying pop-ups. It doesn’t share user data, sell user data, or even track personal data. It doesn’t do anything to “monetize” you. You’re nothing but a reader to me, and that means everything to me.

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Apply with Sanity is a registered trademark of Apply with Sanity, LLC. All rights reserved.